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Forum ISOCPK.ORG Discussion:

Replies and Discussion about IDN ccTLD for Pakistan

Sarmad Hussain Permalink Reply by Sarmad Hussain on November 16, 2009 at 12:24pm
Center for Research in Urdu Language Processing at FAST-National University has released a report on IDNs. You can download it from http://www.crulp.org/research/reports.htm.

Imran Ahmad Shah Permalink Reply by Imran Ahmad Shah on November 18, 2009 at 3:59pm
Dear All,
It is requested to arrange the Independent Survey (through International webservice providers for online survey) to obtain Public Openion regarding IDNs ccTLD implementation planning in Pakistan and it is also necessary to publish in National Level Newspapers to the public to contribute in the selection of Name Script for new IDN ccTLD, either they select .PAKISTAN in Urdu Language ۔پاکستان or they prefer to have .PAK in Urdu Language پاک. ?

P.S. This Survey should be arranged through Independent third part international website.
Sarmad Hussain Permalink Reply by Sarmad Hussain on November 18, 2009 at 4:11pm
The public forum organized in Pakistan by Ministry of IT discussed this in detail. The discussion is reflected in the minutes of the meeting released at the website of the ministry. Though both strings ۔پاک and ۔پاکستان are possible, there was consensus on the latter (for reasons discussed in the minutes). However the ministry will also reserve the other string as it is a variant for the IDN ccTLD.
Imran Ahmad Shah Permalink Reply by Imran Ahmad Shah on November 18, 2009 at 4:40pm
In my opinion, if MoITT want to keep one string reserved, it is recommended to keep reserve name string ۔پاکستان. as an additional string in the application for IDN ccTLD, but for the main script for IDN ccTLD پاک. should be used to provide ease of use to the related community. However as I wrote, it is my opinion on your comments, the community opinion should be taken on this issue on National level through an independent international surveyor. You may understand the confidence level for acceptable result of concusses from a sample or from a population. 1 or 2 percent sampling may not reflect the accuracy (statistical terms).
Imran Ahmad Shah Permalink Reply by Imran Ahmad Shah on November 19, 2009 at 2:55pm
1. The "decision and recommendation for selection of ccTLD Script" is based on the referred meeting/workshop which comprises on 20 Gov. & Official Staff, 38 FAST+CRULP+NLA+CEfU fellows, and only less then 10 external persons.
2. Referred Auto complete functionality of the browser is actually misleading concept, it only complete from cache (history of previously typed keyword of the URL Domains).

It is suggested to obtain point of view of the population (national public).
Sarmad Hussain Permalink Reply by Sarmad Hussain on November 19, 2009 at 5:37pm
1. Please let me list the organizations which have participated in the process, over the series of meetings (this list may be missing some):

Ministry of IT
National Language Authority
Pakistan Software Export Board
Pakistan Computer Bureau
Sindhi Language Authority
University of Sindh, Department of IT
University of Sindh, Department of Arts and Languages
Balochi Academy
Balochistan University of IT and Management Sciences, Department of Computer Science
Quaid e Azam University
Siraiki Academy
Frontier Language Institute
Pashto Academy
Peshawar University, Department of Computer Science
Punjab University Oriental College
Punjab Language and Culture Institute
Iqbal Academy
Linguistic community members from Torwali, and other language communities from the frontier
Pakistan All Software Houses Association (PASHA)
KRL Institute of CS and IT

(there were many more organizations and people invited from all sectors, who did not attend)

In addition open invitations were sent on relevant public and research forums, which include English and Urdu newspapers, and mailing lists on IT policy and language computing. As part of the process, the organizers have tried their best to get feedback from as representative a group as possible. More could have participated, and they were invited, but they chose not to. Even then, the group which attended well represents the diverse linguistic and technical interests of the people of Pakistan.

What has been significant in the last meeting was that though there was discussion on both options for the IDN ccTLD string for a significant time, the eventual decision which came out was unanimous. So given the two choices, everybody felt that ۔پاکستان was a better choice. Interestingly, this is not unusual as many other countries using Arabic script have also reached the same conclusion for their IDN ccTLD strings after internal discussions in these countries. The strings being applied for or considered by these countries include مصر، امارات، السعودیۃ though they also have abridged alternatives.

2. The auto-complete functionality requires you to type the URL once. This technology is meeting expectations of Latin-script based names in the current context. IDNs will surely be challenging this technological context in many ways, as they get adopted, and the technology will surely be enhanced to accommodate the new set of user requirements. Developing an auto-completer separately for labels triggered by a label separator, instead of the complete URL at a time, is not difficult to implement, if it is needed beyond the current auto-complete functionality. If the need is established, the community can enhance open source software to accommodate these user requirements. We will only be able to ascertain the real end user need as we deploy the IDNs.
Imran Ahmad Shah Permalink Reply by Imran Ahmad Shah on November 19, 2009 at 7:54pm
Its really a great contribution for IDN & Urdu and other Asian Scripts from you.
CRULP & NLA devotion for the development of Urdu Language Scripts is changing the history of the Computer Usage in Pakistan. Very soon, every one will be enjoying with the Urdu Domain Names and will be able to Read & write in Urdu on their computers (Internet & Email). Thank you very much to list down the list of contributors in computerization & policy development for Urdu Language.

However, the main topic and important concern was the selection of IDN ccTLD name script for Pakistan and the given examples of مصر، امارات، السعودیۃ are good enough to describe that they do not have other option to use abbreviation, but since the foundation of the Pakistan, every one is use to and well acquainted with PAK e.g Indo-Pak, Pak-China, Saudi-Pak.

If it is going to be formed forcefully or with the concensus, it is not personal problem (mine or your), complete Nation has to suffer.

What we should do if we can guess the problem today.

I am sure you will not agree with the moto:

"do nothing and be happy?" or "Let them sleep" or "سوتا رہ - سو تا رہ"

With in 3 years, when the above contribution will enable to register and develop Urdu Domain Names, at least 5000+ domains will be developed in Urdu (annually).

At least 20,00,000 to 50,00,000 Internet Users will have to type 4 additional keyletters to access their different Urdu Domain Names to browse them, for example every one would like to read "جنگ اخبار۔پاکستان" or have to review سٹاک ایکسچینج۔پاکستان. So, about 80,00,000 to 200,00,000 EXTRA CHARACTERS (keyletters) will have to be typed and will be communicated through the internet traffic everyday.

Every domain may have at least 2 - 5 sub domain, every sub domain may have 5 to 100 email addresses. So, about 200,000 email users have to type 50,000 to 50,00,000 email addresses on daily basis and will have to write 200,000 to 200,00,000 EXTRA CHARACTERS (keyletters) and will be communicated through the internet traffic everyday and also will store in Email Servers. (will occupy extra storage space)

Decision is your's because you have the control by the Grace of Allah (by the virtue of the God).
Naveed Permalink Reply by Naveed on November 22, 2009 at 8:56pm
A ccTLD should be good enough to represent the respective country or territory; this has been the practice for present ccTLD regime where ISO 3166 list has been used to represent a ccTLD. IDN ccTLD however have opened a new opportunity for countries to represent their countries name on Internet in their native language(s).

In my personal view ۔پاکستان ( our country name meaning a place where PAKIS live) is a better representation for IDN ccTLD as compared to .پاک (a general Arabic word meaning thing in a clean state). Moreover, its just a matter of four characters which do not pose any heavy extra burden of typing on end-user but results in a better representation of a ccTLD both locally and globally.

Since MoIT (as IDN ccTLD interested applicant) while replying to ICANN last November has already suggested ۔پاکستان, we should put collaborative efforts to assist the application process. ICANN has already announced the Fast Track application process where Kingdom of Saudi Arabia has came as one of the first applicants. Going into the public opinion survey is not a bad option ( which could have been done as of now), but at this critical time of process to me it may pose an avoidable delay on our part.
Imran Ahmad Shah Permalink Reply by Imran Ahmad Shah on November 23, 2009 at 11:52am
My Dear Naveed, How are you? I hope you are have returned back from IGF and taken back your active role in PTA.

The discussion was regarding the Country Code Selection in Urdu. I would like to mention that پاک. means into Urdu Language are neat, clean, sacred, holy, impeccable and immaculate and remaining part ستان mean is state, land, geo location. پاکستان mean is a holy land/ state. When we say پاک آرمی (Pak Army) army of Republic of Pakistan. Similarly when we say پاک سعودی (Pak Saudi) it mean the relationship between Pakistan & Saudi Arab. So, if some one is deriving the alternate usage, I believe that there is not alternate abuse usage until the some one want to register پلید (negative abuse) domain name. So, do not worry, we will not be going to loose the right presentation of the Country on Global Level. It will generate a very good image (ccTLD for a Holy State).

I am fully agree with you are right that time is very limited (running very fast). Instead of getting involved in debate we should start getting their opinion, if community may have some influence on pre-decided formulation of the Government. I am quite sure that dictatorship has gone and now a DEMOCRATIC SYSTEM is running in the country in the leadership of the President Mr. Asif Ali Zardari and the Prime Minister Mr. Yousaf Raza Ghilani. Public opinion is most important for them and is taken into consideration by the Public Government as well.
Waqas Hassan Permalink Reply by Waqas Hassan on November 24, 2009 at 10:15am
In my humble opinion, i think .PAK represents a nation like .AFGHAN or .TURK but .PAKISTAN represents a country. So by going for .PAKISTAN, we are representing more of a country than a nation which is the right approoach. In Pakistan, we have minorities as well who call themselves Pakistanis and by using .PAKISTAN, we give out a notion that its a place for all not just Pak muslims or a Pak nation.

I appreciate the in-depth analysis on the number of characters by Imran but i think we should try to represent a country rather than a nation.
Staff Member (dotPAK) Permalink Reply by Staff Member (dotPAK) on November 24, 2009 at 2:20pm
IDN ccTLD should be .PAKISTAN.

We fully agree with Mr Waqas input and Mr Naveed. ccTLD is not a commercial market.

Point to be noted that dotPAK is a registered entity for new gTLD in English and its variant or translation into Urdu can not be taken by anyone else.

Mr Shah, sorry to say:

ریختا کے تمہی استاد نہیں ہو غالب
کہتے ہیں اگلے زمانے میں کوئی میر ب
ھی تھا

Rekhta ke tumhinustād nahīn ho Ghālib
Kahte hain agle zamāne men ko'ī Mīr bhī thā